Comments on: Can You Tell The Difference Between A Real Orchestra And A Synthesized One?

By: miah8000

miah8000 — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:12:21 +0000

Of the three, I have to agree and say that the second one is probably synths. The third sounds like it could be synthesized as well, although it has better production than the second one.

By: Ruvann

Ruvann — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:30:56 +0000

I listened to the track on some desktop usb speakers at work, and I honestly have to say that I don't hear anything that would make me think that it's fake.

I guess people are always going to prefer the "real thing" but I also think that we are gonna get more and more used to the sound of the digital realm. especially with today's quality VI libraries.

My point being that if a artist uses a VI over the real thing, the average consumer does not hear the difference. Only a trained ear on decent studio sound will really be able to tell the differences.
Nevermind the fact that if it was not a fake, maybe it's just some person's unique editing & mixing style.
I see my friends listening to one album and then the other of various bands and if the recording sounds good, then a person just accepts that as that band's "sound".

SoI for one do not at all mind using this quality Virtual Instruments in a song.

By: synthhead

synthhead — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:47:34 +0000

Paul – thanks for your comments.

Your project is fascinating – because it starts to raise questions about what a "real" orchestra is.

Is it a bunch of people using classical instrument technology, is it a sound, is it the process of making music out of old scores, or is it something else?

For the record:

The first example is from Classical Masterpieces | Deutsche Welle's podcast of Beethoven's Symphony No. 3, the "Eroica".

The second is from The Fauxharmonic Orchestra's performance of Beethoven's Symphony No. 2, in D, III – Scherzo.

The third example comes from Classical Masterpieces | Deutsche Welle's podcast of Robert Schumann’s Symphony No. 3.

By: Paul Henry Smith

Paul Henry Smith — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:35:32 +0000

None of them are real. They're all coming out of speakers!

Since I actually made the second example, I should say that the purpose was not to imitate a real orchestra and sneak by un-detected. Rather, the point was to play this piece how I wanted to play it … with the shaping and balance between the moving notes that I felt best fit with the other elements of the score.

It's not so important to me that it sound exactly like a real orchestra — just like it was not important to Glenn Gould that his piano sound just like a clavichord from Bach's day. The important thing is the musical expression. Can I make it musically compelling?

To answer that, it may be best to hear the full version of No. 2, here it is:
http://www.fauxharmonic.com/music/beethoven_symph...

- Paul Henry Smith

By: MirlitronOne

MirlitronOne — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:01:03 +0000

The second one is virtual. Just look at the way its envelope leaps up and down! No real orchestra can play dynamics that well.

I still like it, though. Way to put grumbly real musicians out of work!

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:20:22 +0000

which one is virtual? so the question is either of them has been naturally played and the other one is played – or – written using recorded samples of real orchestral instruments?

so, virtual is definitely the second one. It's cold and clums.
If I'm wrong , I'm very impressed!

By: lewis.72

lewis.72 — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:30:49 +0000

The first one sounds real, the second virtual (for the reasons listed above) and the third one I'm on the fence about.

By: Prole Art Threat

Prole Art Threat — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:30:23 +0000

Oscillators and/or wavetables, that is.

By: Prole Art Threat

Prole Art Threat — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:28:11 +0000

What exactly is meant by "synthesized" and "virtual" here? Are they based on samples or are they actually synthesized from oscillators?

By: David

David — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:23:02 +0000

I guess they are all synthesized.

David

By: efabric

efabric — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:20:12 +0000

The second one sounds like many take of individual instruments mixed (copy-pasted?) togoether. The first sounds like a big mess of too far miked big room analog take. A little too boomy for a classical experience, but I have the worst headphones on earth. The third one sounds somewhere between the two. Perhaps too clean for me, but not as harsh as the second, wich is definitively virtual. How couldn't you hear the difference ?

By: Diderique

Diderique — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:18:03 +0000

Second one: strings sound more synthetic and the dynamics are unnatural (too fast cresc/decr). The instruments aren't as 'together' as they are in the other two, but maybe that could be solved by mixing and configuring the reverb.

By: Mutton Geoff

Mutton Geoff — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:12:26 +0000

Section 2 sounds the least pleasing to me.
The dynamics seemed very 'hyped' on first listen and it didn't feel like 'one big instrument' in the way that the other two do.
After reading the comments and re-listening, the harsh attack and machine-gunning was also evident to me.

By: Ballantine

Ballantine — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:52:49 +0000

… I think the first one is "virtual" … too much compressor for classical music

By: thorn

thorn — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:50:13 +0000

I have to go with the majority so far and say the second one. And I did make sure to listen and decide before reading posts so as to not color my opinion. Without getting some decent volume to give you more specifics (my office is in the school library – loud music is verboten) it simply feels much more sterile than the other two examples.

By: Ballantine

Ballantine — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:45:32 +0000

Fake, real, real ….

By: Ullia

Ullia — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:27:59 +0000

Second one is definitely virtual.

By: Rupert Lally

Rupert Lally — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:01:12 +0000

sorry about the double post!

By: Rupert Lally

Rupert Lally — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:58:43 +0000

The second one is virtual – it's good, but there's a slight "machine gun" effect on the strings as The ShaggyFreak mentioned, also the timing is a bit metronomical – as with all these things the virtual stuff sounds good , until you hear it next to the real thing. But then is the point of virtual orchestras really to replace the real thing or are they a compromise to be used when (as is often the case) the budget is too small or to mockup an arrangement in order for producers to hear what you're going to do? Surely no-one really believes a virtual orchestra will really replace real ones if someone has the option (and the budget) to use the real thing?

By: Rupert Lally

Rupert Lally — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:56:38 +0000