Hexfix93 (Velvet Acid Christ) has been doing some tests, trying to figure out which computer/sequencer combination is the tightest for doing electronic music.
He tested sequencers by sequencing a series of 16th notes, recording the output, viewing it in an audio editor and checking how much the 16th notes deviated from where they should be. .
He found three computer/sequencer combinations that he thinks are tighter than anything produced today – and they’re all ancient.
The winner?
The Atari STe:
The Atari STe is monochrome in 640×480 max res, 8mhz, yes, 8mhz motorola 68000 processor, with 720k floppy drive and no hard drive, external mouse and monitor, a space hog. Doesn’t make noise though.
The timing is super tight with drums, if you put the drums on midi channel 1 and bass on midi 2, and put the hardware for the drums and bass 1 and 2 on the midi out chain, the drums and bass will be super tight. You can throw 170 bpm 32nd and 64th notes at it and doesn’t choke. It’s amazing.
If you are doing aggressive electronic, high temp, or glitchy stuff with hardware, these are the best sequencers. No PC or modern MAC can match it.
How tight is the Atari STe?
Tight to 1ms.
Anyone else try tests like this?
It seems a bit pathetic that the tightest computer for sequencing would be 20 years old.
35 Responses to “The Atari STe – Still The World’s Tightest Music Computer?”
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It makes me laugh that anyone thinks they're going to get truly tight sequencing over actual physical MIDI, from any computer.
If you really want tightness, use analogue hardware and something like Silent Way or Volta to generate *sample accurate* control information. That's about 50 times tighter (at 44.1kHz) than "tight to 1ms".
Not pathetic at all – probably exactly the reason why STes still fetch good good money on eBay. I really wish I hadn't given mine away for free fifteen years ago now.
Not pathetic at all – probably exactly the reason why STes still fetch good good money on eBay. I really wish I hadn't given mine away for free fifteen years ago now.
Comparing what, just two channels of MIDI driven output? How about we build a full song and watch that downbeat lag with one MIDI port? Or what about the poor grounding of the ST's MIDI port that freaked some devices out completely? If we're testing external interfaces, let's do that on both. Or best of all: Compare the old MIDI mess to a soft-synth. Sure that's not fair, but we are talking about tightness. If tight timing were my concern, I'd rather run software than try to keep one of those grand old ladies, and her floppies, working. (Yes, I used Hybrid Arts SMPTE Track and Cubase on Atari ST's for years.)
Comparing what, just two channels of MIDI driven output? How about we build a full song and watch that downbeat lag with one MIDI port? Or what about the poor grounding of the ST's MIDI port that freaked some devices out completely? If we're testing external interfaces, let's do that on both. Or best of all: Compare the old MIDI mess to a soft-synth. Sure that's not fair, but we are talking about tightness. If tight timing were my concern, I'd rather run software than try to keep one of those grand old ladies, and her floppies, working. (Yes, I used Hybrid Arts SMPTE Track and Cubase on Atari ST's for years.)
It makes me laugh that anyone thinks they're going to get truly tight sequencing over actual physical MIDI, from any computer.
If you really want tightness, use analogue hardware and something like Silent Way or Volta to generate *sample accurate* control information. That's about 50 times tighter (at 44.1kHz) than "tight to 1ms".
It makes me laugh that anyone thinks they're going to get truly tight sequencing over actual physical MIDI, from any computer.
If you really want tightness, use analogue hardware and something like Silent Way or Volta to generate *sample accurate* control information. That's about 50 times tighter (at 44.1kHz) than "tight to 1ms".
have been trying to get one for some time now… and I think I'll just keep on trying… there's a lot of really cool software for this machine! I wouldn't get one for the reason you proposed though, as expertsleepers said, MIDI from a computer is always lagging somehow, but on the other hand, most of the time nobody really notices anyway…
have been trying to get one for some time now… and I think I'll just keep on trying… there's a lot of really cool software for this machine! I wouldn't get one for the reason you proposed though, as expertsleepers said, MIDI from a computer is always lagging somehow, but on the other hand, most of the time nobody really notices anyway…
Well it seem reasonable that early computer would have better timing. MIDI was usually supplied by an interrupt in the circuitry, so it is not like it was fighting for resources from anything else.
Good point – sample-accurate editing is available on today's devices.
Still – not quite Apples to Apples…..
Good point – sample-accurate editing is available on today's devices.
Still – not quite Apples to Apples…..
There's definitely something to be said for the tightness of analog.
What's the latency going from a modern sequencer to Silent Way to a digital to audio converter and back again, though?
There's definitely something to be said for the tightness of analog.
What's the latency going from a modern sequencer to Silent Way to a digital to audio converter and back again, though?
Of course the ST wins. It is *NOT* a multi-tasking computer. There is really NOTHING ELSE going on besides the sequencing software. On a modern system, everything is "time sliced." Program A gets the processor for 1ms. Program B gets the processor for 1ms, and so on. Also, the operating system gets its own chunk of time too.
Practically none of that happens on an Atari ST. You have interrupts every now and then for system maintenance, but those are tiny and take up almost no time. So I am not surprised at these results.
Then again how tight is a live orchestra, jazz band or rock group. Certainly not down to 1 ms. So, really, what does it matter to the music?
This is why I still love my Atari St. I have Cubase 3.1 and a Midex MIDI expander. I still use my PC for lots of stuff but when I'm ready to groove it all goes back on the Atari, always.
This is why I still love my Atari St. I have Cubase 3.1 and a Midex MIDI expander. I still use my PC for lots of stuff but when I'm ready to groove it all goes back on the Atari, always.
Unfortunately for VAC, he feels softsynths are cack compared to the dedicated outboard synths. And I have to agree… I have yet to find a softsynth that doesn't end up sounding exactly the same as all the other softsynths on my computer (basically, they all sound like my computer… which isn't necessarily a good thing).
So, if you're already dedicated to the external hardware route, then MIDI timing inside the computer is secondary to the timing outside.
Unfortunately for VAC, he feels softsynths are cack compared to the dedicated outboard synths. And I have to agree… I have yet to find a softsynth that doesn't end up sounding exactly the same as all the other softsynths on my computer (basically, they all sound like my computer… which isn't necessarily a good thing).
So, if you're already dedicated to the external hardware route, then MIDI timing inside the computer is secondary to the timing outside.
Whatever the latency is, it will be absolutely constant. The trouble with MIDI is that the timing wobbles about.
it matters only to those that are into the same things. i use my nanopad to control some vocoding aspects which i believe to be impressive but none of my friends even know what the hell im talking about when i try to explain it. the findings here are relative only to the people that can relate. i know that out of diet coke and coke classic only one floats but its of no consequence. its just interesting to know. anyway – john bonham is the tightest and bestest drummer ever. i know because he told me.
tim to troll!
AMIGA?!
Probably couldn't find one that was still running.
I remember them well, tho.
nonesense granpy.
Spoken like the ignorant whelp you clearly are.
Probably couldn't find one that was still running.
I remember them well, tho.
Probably couldn't find one that was still running.
I remember them well, tho.
Atari based music is more popular than you think! Check this link out…
http://www.atarimusic.net
Atari based music is more popular than you think! Check this link out…
http://www.atarimusic.net
perhaps i am biased as i have two and have used them since the mid 80s (when i bought them new).. but these where specifically design by the atari team for music, hence having midi ports built in, and directly bused to the cpu. we have made jokes for years about nothing ever being tighter, and it's actually noticeable compared to a mac.
in fact i have used macs for years, but have always complained of the lag even in the best of setups, so it's not surprise to me that test show the same.
yes, it's not OSC, and the granularity of midi could never be compared, but usually running 16 relatively chord heavy tracks and even spitting out sysex at the same time, the atari really is incredible.
perhaps i am biased as i have two and have used them since the mid 80s (when i bought them new).. but these where specifically design by the atari team for music, hence having midi ports built in, and directly bused to the cpu. we have made jokes for years about nothing ever being tighter, and it's actually noticeable compared to a mac.
in fact i have used macs for years, but have always complained of the lag even in the best of setups, so it's not surprise to me that test show the same.
yes, it's not OSC, and the granularity of midi could never be compared, but usually running 16 relatively chord heavy tracks and even spitting out sysex at the same time, the atari really is incredible.
ps: if you get one, make sure you get the scsi connector, to avoid floppy madness. also, this machine boots up fully in like 5 seconds, which is truly nice.
would also recommend the CLAB expander (if you are running creator/logic (creator pattern based sequencing is better btw imo ! )
And find M if you can as well, if you even want an extra "player" in your "band'…
ps: if you get one, make sure you get the scsi connector, to avoid floppy madness. also, this machine boots up fully in like 5 seconds, which is truly nice.
would also recommend the CLAB expander (if you are running creator/logic (creator pattern based sequencing is better btw imo ! )
And find M if you can as well, if you even want an extra "player" in your "band'…
This ATARI brings back memories. I use to play this for long hours.