65 thoughts on “Behringer DeepMind 12 Envelopes Sneak Preview

    1. How is having 3 ADSRs with variable curves on each stage, can be exponential or logarithmic, multiple trigger modes including LFOs, are loopable into audio range, and can be used as various mod sources AND destinations, qualify as mediocre? You’ve got to be kidding. There are too many biased trolls around here that would go insane if anyone criticized ADS envelopes on MOOG and Oberheim, and don’t care that the big names in analog are grossly overpriced for what they can do.

    2. remember, for those of you grumbling about what this doesn’t have, this was originally based on a Juno 106, then expanded upon. And for under $1K, you can’t go wrong. If you don’t want one, I’ll take yours.

  1. The LFO sounded kind of slow but audiorate envelopes do the job as well.
    Pity there are no deeper oscillator modulation possibilities like x-mod or FM.
    After all this B-thing sounds really good if not best of all this new analog synths.
    Really a true “Future-Retro”! πŸ˜‰

    1. When you notice, that the second oscillator is actually sub osc in vitamins, it becomes 6 voice synth in practice, and it compares to other low cost analogs.

      It’s a little cheaper, than A4, but its simpler, monotimbral and has only one filter per voice.

      It really isn’t as much of a revelation as people think.

      1. Nope. It’s a 12 voice with each voice comprising 2 linked oscillators .
        To repeat: You can play 12 notes at once , and every note has 2 oscillators sounding. Now you might want something more feature laden on the second osc than pitch offset and tonal shaping , but its certainly another oscillator.

        So, tell me again … which other analogue is 12 note polyphonic with 2 oscillators on each note?

        1. I know they are independed oscillators, but they ARE SO limited, that when you want to do even the most basic things, the DM12 will become 6 voice. Just to detune two saws, you have to use unison.

          And you WILL want more features from the second oscillator.

          I don’t know other synths, that offer another oscillator, but limits its use into a bloody square.

          1. Seems some musicians never get satisfied with anything. Others, including me, simply enjoy the new opportunities they get offered with new products like the DM12 πŸ˜‰

          2. Go back to the “12 DCO” video a few days ago. It isn’t as bad as you make it sound. And if you have to go into 6 voice mode to get two detuned sawtooths, and that’s what makes it “SO LIMITED” then look again at the price. How much does DSI’s two 6 voice synthesizers (Prophet and Oberheim) cost? You’re complaints are ridiculous.

            1. Yes, it always comes back to the price.

              People are almost demanding VIP treatment for this synth, because of the number of the analog voices, and also having other manufacturers ridiculed and shamed for not giving lots of (simplified) analog voices in a monotimbral synth, but when some one notices any unpleasant omissions, then you should shame your self for asking anything more from $999 synth.

              Shame on me!!!

              I think this is your regular example of you getting what you pay for.

              Lets also hear it in some more demos NOT produced by its manufacturer(Even Casios examplary videos of their cheap shopping mall arrangers seem amazing in demos), before stoning the other synth manufacturers.

              1. If you don’t like it that’s ok. You clearly mentioned that already. Nobody force you to further follow the DM12 discussion if you’re not interested.

                But for what reason you’re criticizing a product you never had on hand, you didn’t know well, you even not fully understood because you not carefully inform yourself about it? So, please tell me, what’s your problem?

  2. Those envelopes are definitely faster/snappier than what I heard from demos of the minilogue, and snappier than the best iOS synths & AU synths I have here.

    The loopable capabilities (into audio range) are pretty impressive.

    It’s nothing to sneeze at, or dismiss, especially at that price. I feel my will weakening with every demo. It looks amazing.

    BTW, people who are complaining about menu diving should realize that it only gives this rig much more power and capability at a this price– rather than trying to add 3 times as many controls.

    1. I think they are planning on solving the menu diving issue with a control surface app for ipad / android , via onboard wifi.

      1. There’s very little menu diving. As far as I can see, when you adjust eg the filter, the filter options screen displays. Hopefully!

    2. Menu diving doesn’t look that bad actually. Tossing on a multi-effects section will almost always mean multiple additional menus. If you want LFOs and Envelopes that can patch into almost anything you’ll need menus or you’ll need some kind of patch bay like the Matrix Brute, which increases cost/size.

      For the most part it looks like you’ll be able to do a lot of sound design with the knobs/faders and tweak it with some menu work.

      1. Ah. I stand corrected. I was only going from the demos I had heard,
        but that does make sense. I recall there was a true zero time attack, so perhaps it also does a super fast sweep decay or release.

  3. I don’t understand the negativity. Variable envelope curves and free mod assignability seem pretty innovative features on an analog polysynth.

  4. If someone said to me that they could tie you a brand new Juno 106, export with a host of effects, 2 extra envelopes with variable curves an extra lfo etc etc etc for 1k$ – I’d have money ready before they finished the sentence… Not complain about some petty detail.

    It’s an instrument, take it for what it is, or leave it. Complaining only makes you look like a spoilt child.

    It’s a 12 voice analog poly synth for a grand – how does the minioogue have critical acclaim and this only critcism?! Honeslty

    1. Do you really need to know why?

      Because it’s a Behringer.

      I’m neither for or against this synth; just not something that interests me greatly. But that’s the main reason why everyone else is criticizing. Their track record, after all, has never been about high quality.

        1. How does this have so much criticism when neither you nor anyone else has touched it? It’s quite easy, given the information so far, to understand people getting excited. It seems to have a lot of potential.

          1. It’s quite easy to be excited for layered videos that don’t give a true impression of what anything does?

            Or no specs whatsoever?

            You are getting excited by market hype, while others want real information and the lack of it is very telling.

            1. Considering the explanations in all the videos, I don’t see how you can make the statement that it doesn’t give a true impression of what it does. I see the statements you are making elsewhere that aren’t true. I don’t understand why you have to troll these threads so much.

              1. What explanation. The zooming around and showing the screen sorta doing what the player is doing?

                You guys are enchanted by something shiny, that’s all.

                And if you are referring to the half assed second oscillator then….enjoy your kool-aid.

    1. I own a Minilogue. You can get warm pads out of it. But it is NOT a liquid smooth sounding synth. It’s raw gritty aggressive VCO sound, not smooth polite Juno style DCO (I also own a Juno). Both synths have their individual characters and compliment eachother well.

  5. People keep suggesting it’s an analog poly, feels more like a digital synth with analog filters? Correct me if I’m wrong

    1. When you say it “Feels more like a digital synth with analog filters” – what are we to correct? Your feeling?

      I’ve spend loads of time with digital synths, and this doesn’t “feel” (sound) like them AT ALL.

      This synth won’t be all things to all people. And it could be that with some of these criticisms, we are just hearing a commenter’s internal process to talk themselves out of having to shell out a cool grand. I do that with apps sometimes.

    2. This is a 34 year old argument (the Juno-60 was released in 1982) the oscillators are analog controlled by digital signals for tuning, Today we realize that digital tuning is too perfect and sounds artificial, so the Behringer engineers added pitch imperfections.

  6. Well, most haters here just don’t have keyboard skills. If you have, then you know what twelve voices mean and details around envelopes and LFOs are just that, details.

    Seriously, to nag about the features of a second oscillator when you probably even can’t play with two hands.

    1. Tough call. Having never played either, I don’t have much to say on it. You have to way the features you NEED, vs. the features you WANT. I don’t think anyone would argue that the Elektron is probably a safer choice, but if you are patient, you can wait for some reviews to come in on the final production units of the DM12 and decide later.

    2. A difficult one having not had a shot of a DM12. But I am a previous AK owner. Design wise, it was a thing of beauty but I couldn’t get over the 3 octaves and 4 voice limitation. For some reason, the A4 made more sense for four voices (also a previous owner of!) but something with keys just screams a need for more polyphony to me.

      Best way to view the AK/4 is to think of it as 4 mono synths in one with an amazing sequencer. If patient you can bag one for a little more than Β£800 all in (second hand).

      Having said that, I really fancy the DM12. Got the right amount of hands on to make it look a lot of fun.

    3. I own an A4 but still am excited about this new synth.

      Elektron is a beast and, while there are only four voices, each has its own sequencer, which has p-locks. P-locking means that on every step of the sequencer you can change practically any parameter of the patch or even switch patches for that one beat. This allows you to create pretty complex-sounding sequences that sound like a lot more than four voices.

      You can also lock all four voices to one channel to get four-voice polyphony, which is great but not the same as 12 voices.

      Elektron keys/A4 also come with a free VST that allows your unit to be an external IO for your computer and record the four voices directly with only one USB cable. This plugin also acts as a patch editor/librarian, which makes for easy patch tweaking.

      Also keys/A4 have CV outs to control external modular equipment and can act as a mixer allowing for two channels of external sources to use the A4’s effects.

      Not sure how deep the DeepMind’s software goes yet, if it allows external sources, what the sequencer looks like. There is an iOS patch editor, which is fine but I’d rather it be a VST as well.

      If you’re not in a hurry, why not wait until this is released to see what the full feature-set is?

      1. Thanks for your comments folks, it’s nice to get a mature and intelligent response rather than the complaints / nonsense that usually goes one here. I had my heart set on an Analog Keys until this was announced. I do like the sound of it. I’ll wait for a few reviews but if the sequencer is not up to much I’ll probably go for the AK.

  7. It seems that everyone is overlooking the most important question:

    Can you play the song Jump on it?

    Isn’t that all that really matters?

    1. You know you’re onto something when the trolls come out. It’s almost like they work for the competition or something. I know I’d be scared. This is sure to shake up the market. As if the Minilogue, Volcas, Brutes, and others hadn’t done enough already!

  8. Wow, at this rate will we also get a sneak preview of the on/off button too? I’ll bet you all a tin of rice pudding we will…..

    Synth looks great tho….

  9. The LFO triggering the envelope is a powerfull feature i always loved on the arp odyssey.
    I think the synth should have been named Midas DM-12 and i donΒ΄t like the look of it a lot but judging from the demos it has a really nice set of features and sounds good too, definately interested in buying one sooner or later.

  10. With the first teaser everyone thought it was a mono synth and that it sounded great! Now that we know it’s 12 voice polyphonic everyone says it’s crap! What gives?

  11. I think this synth looks pretty deep and I’d have no problem with it being a “new brand”. Over the last few years, I’ve cycled through a number of vintage and new synths to find what I really like.

    My price point is around a $1000 although it will be closer to $1500 CDN whenever it hits Canada. Been thinking about getting into modular and certainly $1500 would not take me very far. And the certainly the DSI/Oberheim synths are out of my price range.

    My main criteria are: sound, build quality and flexibility. I had had an early Minibrute and was not impressed by the build quality (too many different issues in two units). My Minilogue just arrived a couple of weeks ago and although it only has four voices, it can make a wide variety of excellent sounds and the sequencer/motion recording is super fun. My point is that with the right frame of mind and programming knowledge you can get a lot from what some folks would consider to be synths of “limited depth”.

    Of course, I’ll wait until Marc Doty and Nick have a chance with a production unit but I remain optimistic until proven otherwise. πŸ™‚

    1. $1299CAD. If it’s any higher than that, it’s a ripoff. You can get this synth at any major US instrument retailer for $899US (10% off just by asking for it). JRRShop is $999 with 10% off (code freely available on the web). Including shipping to Canada, the total is $1280CAD plus gst. If Long & McQuade try to get greedy and charge more than that, they will lose my purchase to JRRShop, who are wonderful to deal with.

      1. @SynthGuru – probably more accurate than my $1500 hyperbole. The $499 USD Minilogue cost me $750 CDN with tax and delivery and I bought it from an out of province seller so I saved the 8% PST. I’ve had extra costs shipping back to the US for warranty work so I now prefer to buy from Canadian retailers. Regardless, my point was that I think it looks like a good price for an interesting instrument. But time will tell on build quality and sound capabilities once it starts getting to market.

  12. There’s a simply exasperating amount of negativity in sometimes very uninformed comments concerning this instrument. These are fantastic times for hardware synths – enjoy it! Maybe in another year, hardware will be back out of vogue and we’ll all be back moving 10-pixel wide dials with a mouse!

    I love the DM12. I’m loving the build up. I will very likely buy it (actually, if Behringer make a desktop version, wild horses won’t stop me giving them my money).

    I applaud Behringer for sticking their neck out. Respect and good luck.

      1. And I think it the ridiculous negativity that makes no sense at all, EXCEPT for the blind followers of Moog, DSI, and Oberheim.

        1. I don’t own a DSI or Oberheim. I have a Mother 32 and a Rogue.

          People can draw conclusions about those instruments and any new ones those companies release because they have a history and demonstrated output.

          Behr has none of that. We have teaser videos and no specs.

          That’s why people are pissy about this thing. It’s all vague advertising right now.

          Then people start comparing this to a DSI or a Minilouge or whatever…when there is no real basis for comparison yet.

  13. very disappointing sound from these new cheap (and not so cheap analogue synths) .
    They are probably 20 years too late, but i truly remember being more exited for the nl2 than i am for these. All this breakdown of functions wouldn’t be needed if they could come up with 10 great sounding patches…

    The envelopes btw are well speced but the sound of the osc and the filters is very mediocre..

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